2015年3月31日星期二

Daily China,荷兰人曾在中国四川大学就读


他(大卫·麦塔斯)这样做目的很明确:越丑化中国政府,他的案子就越有说服力。……法轮功组织知道怎么利用西方社会来控制这些免费的媒体。我也不是研究苏家屯事件的专家,但就我所掌握的信息,这方面的报道是很不尊重事实的。可以推断,这件事是被相关的报道极度夸大了。[1]
骇人听闻的器官活摘事件:有多少是真的?

http://english.kaiwind.com/puop/201012/15/t20101215_780806.htm

 2010-11-11 凯风网 作者:Daily China 宗(编译)
编者按:Daily China是一名来自欧洲、目前在中国四川大学就读的留学生,他经常在荷兰著名网站网络日志 web-log.nl)的个人博客上发表介绍中国的文章,让欧洲民众更好地了解中国。2010112,他在博客上发文,就法轮功所谓的苏家屯活摘器官事件提出质疑,认为大卫·麦塔斯和大卫·乔高报告的背后隐藏着不为人知的利益因素,事件本身缺乏事实依据,而且极度有失偏颇。

骇人听闻的苏家屯法轮功成员活体器官摘取事件,有多少内容是真实的?

你认为新闻上说的从被囚禁的法轮功练习者身上摘取器官的传言是真的吗?

我面带疑惑地看着我的室友。我怎么能知道这是真的假的还是部分是真的?这根本没法知道。如果确有其事,也是在暗地里发生的。传出来的新闻不是有失偏颇的,就是被夸大了的,或者纯粹是谣言而已。

不为人知的利益因素

曾经有一个关于所谓的器官活摘的报道。消息来源于一名加拿大籍的人权律师,名叫大卫·麦塔斯。显然,他这样做目的很明确:越丑化中国政府,他的案子就越有说服力。

与之相关的还有一位加拿大的政客,名叫大卫·乔高。为了拉选票,他很可能,至少在一定程度上,倾向于支持广大民众所支持的观点。因为法轮功组织知道怎么利用西方社会来控制这些免费的媒体,而在公众看来,法轮功组织是向善的。

更正一下:我的一个读者通知我说,大卫·乔高实际上已经退休了,因此他根本不需要再拉选票了。

易被忽视的事实

麦塔斯在他的文章里说,法轮功组织因其追随者数量过于庞大(他列出了一个巨大的数字,并将其作为证据,而事实上,这个数字仅是法轮功组织自己的猜测而已),而被中国政府所禁止。事实上,这是不完全正确的。麦塔斯想当然地忽略了一个更重要的事实。

在中国,当法轮功运动从一项单纯的精神运动变为政治运动时,一切情况都开始恶化了。如此一来,再加上那些数目未知但总量庞大的法轮功追随者,就把这项运动变成了对社会安定和谐的一个威胁因素。这在中国是违反宪法的。

更重要的是,法轮功运动在国外拥有自己的总部,同时也吸纳了大量国外的援助资金。因此,这项运动正在试图凭借西方的支持,即国外的干涉,来改变中国现状。这也是违反中国宪法的。

(请不要误解:违法并不意味着就可以引发任何侵犯人权的行为。)

麦塔斯和乔高为他们的案子写了一本书。书中描述了相关的内容,但并没有提到相关的调查者,其中就有一位法轮功问题专家,他说这些例证都是有争议的(维基百科)。

极度的有失偏颇

我不是法轮功问题专家——因此,如果你是,并读到这篇文章,且认为我是错的,请告诉我——同时我也不是研究苏家屯事件的专家。但就我所掌握的信息,这方面的报道是很不尊重事实的。可以推断,这件事是被相关的报道极度夸大了。

刊登这篇文章的网站(suite101.com)以见解独到的作家和见多识广的读者为宣传口号。这听起来很公平很正义——但这篇文章中的一些内容却与该口号不相符。我希望其它的各类报纸不要将其报导的内容信以为真。如果这些报纸相信并也对此进行报道,那么我希望感兴趣的读者以及我的室友们在相信并接受其作为事实之前,能够做出明智的判断。


原文网址:http://dailychina.web-log.nl/blog/2010/11/scary-stories-on-falun-gong-organ-harvesting-how-much-of-it-is-true.html


Scary stories on Falun Gong organ harvesting: how much of it is true?
 

Adjust font size:      Close Web-log.nl By Daily China 2010-12-15


 
"Do you think what they say about harvesting organs from Falun Gong prisoners is true?"
I look at my roommate, puzzled. How would I know if it’s true, untrue, or partly true? It’s impossible to know. If it’s true, it’s all happening in the dark. Stories that do come out, are either biased, strongly exaggerated, or even pure gossip.
Underlying interests
Here is one story about the alleged organ harvesting. The source is a Canadian human rights lawyer, David Matas, so the source has a clear interest: the more dirt he can put on the Chinese government, the better, for this makes his case look stronger.
There is also a Canadian politician involved, David Kilgour, who is supposed to try to win votes every couple of years, so he is likely to, at least to some extent, support whatever his country’s public opinion supports. Because Falun Gong knows how to use the western dominated “free” press, Falun Gong is among the good guys, as far as public opinion is concerned.
Update: One of my readers informed me that Kilgour is actually retired so he does not need any more votes.
Conveniently left out
In the article, Matas says the Falun Gong movement was banned by the Chinese government because of its huge number of followers (he mentions a huge figure and presents this figure as a fact, while in truth it is just a guess, by the Falun Gong movement itself). But this is just a part of the truth. Matas conveniently leaves out a more important fact.
In China, it all went for the worse when the Falun Gong movement shifted from being a spiritual movement only, towards being a political movement too. This, and the unknown but large number of followers, turned the movement into a threat to harmony. And that is against the constitution in China.
On top of that, the political movement has its headquarters on foreign soil, and receives a great amount of foreign financial aid. So this political movement is trying to change China with western support: foreign interference. That too, is against Chinese constitution.
(Don’t get me wrong: if something is a violation of the law, that obviously does not mean this makes any violation of any human right.)
Matas and Kilgour wrote a book on their case. The article mentions this, but does not mention that researchers, among whom a Falun Gong expert, say it was based on questionable evidence (Wikipedia).
Extremely biased
I am not an expert on Falun Gong – if you are and read this, and think that I am wrong, please let me know – neither am I an expert on the alleged organ harvesting practices. But as far as I can tell, this story is at least extremely biased in the issues I mentioned. Extrapolating, I can only expect the rest of it to be highly exaggerated.
The website on which the article was published, Suite101.com, carries the slogan “insightful writers, informed readers”. That sounds very impartial and unbiased – something this article is clearly not. I just hope the world’s big newspapers don’t fall for that. And if they do, I hope that interested readers, among whom my roommate, will judge wisely if all content is to be entirely believed and accepted as truth.
(Daily China.web-log.nl, November 2, 2010)




[1] 《不为人知的利益因素》,Daily China,荷兰著名网站“网络日志”(web-log.nl),2010112

艾玛·马克汉姆(Emma Markham)英国科学家


法轮功自称很多信徒被捕,遭受酷刑、死刑和活摘器官,因而备受争议。这些说法绝大多数已被证实是不真实的,毫无事实根据。众多说法之中最烦人的就是所谓的活摘器官……澳大利亚、美国和加拿大政府经过调查,发现没有任何证据证明这些指控是真实的。另外,许多警察滥用酷刑的说法也纯属捏造。……大多数人都认为法轮功是一种极端狂热的宗教信仰,声称遭受迫害,实则借此博得同情和支持,极具争议。我们不应把法轮功当成一个和平的冥想类宗教,而是一个操纵信徒攻击电视台,实施大规模自杀和杀害信徒家人的危险邪教。[1]
Falun Finatics
 http://english.kaiwind.com/puop/201304/26/t20130426_780909.htm

Adjust font size:  ZoomIn ZoomOut   Close
Emma Markham
2013-04-26




Falun Gong is a practice of medication and yoga developed by Li Hongzhi in 1992 1. It is controversial because it claims to have millions of followers and suggests that the communist party have banned the practice in China and has been targeting Falun Gong practitioners, claiming many are arrested and experience torture, execution and organ harvesting 2, 3. Most of these claims have been shown to be untrue, with no factual basis 4.
One of the main martyrs 5 used on the website and promotional material is that of 36 year old Gao Rongrong, who is claimed to have been tortured and killed in longshank labour camp in Shenyang 6. However, there is no accurate evidence to showing this person even exists, as she only appears on Falun Gong related media. Another indervidual, a Tan(g) Yongjie, is claimed to have been burned and imprisoned at Luobo Labour Camp in Guangdong 7, however, upon investigation this labor camp does not even exist 8, and nothing can be found about Tan(g) Guangdong (his name varies between websites but the photos are always the same).
The most disturbing side of the claims is that of organ harvesting, claiming ‘tens of thousands have been murdered for their bodily organs’apparently sold on the black market to profit the communist party 9, 10. In March 2006 these allegations were made against the Chinese government, stating that the individuals were being held in labor camps, prisons and hospital basements before being matched with individuals requiring a transplant 11. The person would then have their organs removed whilst still alive and then the body would be cremated 12, 13. The Falun Gong organisation claims that ‘China has no organised system of organ donation’and that there is a ‘culture aversion to organ donation in China’ 14, and yet China has one of the world’s largest organ transplant programs and the involuntary removal of organs was made illegal in 1984 (with exception for executed criminals) 15. However, these allegations were investigated by both the Australian, American and Canadian governments and there was no evidence to suggest these claims were true 16, 17, 18, 19. In addition, many claims of abuse by police have been completely fabricated 20. China welcomed investigation in to these claims, the hospitals that were named were visited, but no basements existed and the nurses gave statements explaining how holding prisoners and harvesting organs in such a manner was unheard of and would be impossible. Mostly Falun Gong is considered an extremist fanatical religion and is regarded as highly controversial, trying to gain recognition by claiming persecution to gain sympathy and support. Falun Gong should not be considered a peaceful meditative religion, but as a dangerous cult 21 which manipulates its followers in to high jacking TV stations 22, committing mass suicide 23, and murdering their family 24.
(blogspot,4 March 2013)




[1] 《法轮功狂热者》,Blogspot.com艾玛·马克汉姆,201334

2015年3月30日星期一

●查尔斯·刘,美国著名华人社团活动分子


在我看来,法轮功的行动不仅败坏了他们自己的事业进展,也有损于中国问题调查的诚实性。法轮功的活体解剖指控混淆了人们对理性问题的讨论,例如,中国社会关于尊严的道德、伦理标准和对死刑犯的处理方法。写一篇辛德勒的名单的寓言故事并不是审查中国人权记录的办法。如果我们的指控并不确切,而仅仅依靠穷凶极恶的起诉,那么人们为什么要严肃认真对待这件事?[1]
致两个大卫的公开信:关于法轮功与器官活摘
 2008-10-08 凯风网 作者:查尔斯·刘(Charles Liu 李芬(编译)
编者按:美国两位大卫(大卫·乔高与大卫·麦塔斯)自2006年以来,不遗余力地为法轮功的苏家屯指控推波助澜,并前后主笔推出了活摘报告及其修改版。对于指控及报告的可信度,美国政府机构、海外主流媒体、专家,甚至中国异议人士提出质疑,但大卫先生们对此置若惘闻。美国著名华人社团活动分子查尔斯·刘自器官事件出炉以来,关注并跟踪此事件进展。106,他正式向两位大卫先生发出公开信,提请他们仔细审察法轮功对活摘器官案件所作指控的所有事实。
尊敬的乔高先生、麦塔斯先生:
虽然中国的人权记录应该受到审查,但我想请你们仔细审察法轮功对活摘器官案件所作指控的所有事实。
在我看来,法轮功的行动不仅败坏了他们自己的事业进展,也有损于中国问题调查的诚实性。法轮功的活体解剖指控混淆了人们对理性问题的讨论,例如,中国社会关于尊严的道德、伦理标准和对死刑犯的处理方法。
本着这种精神,我想提请你们注意一些截然相反的事实:
——美国国务院的秘密调查发现,法轮功组织把苏家屯类比为奥斯威辛集中营的指控并不可靠。 [1]
——美国国会在一份关于中国的简要评论中对法轮功种族灭绝指控的真实性提出质疑,同时也质疑乔高-麦塔斯报告的可信度。 [2]
——中国异议人士吴弘达做了很长一段时间的独立调查,结果表明法轮功的指控及其证人无法得到核实。[3]
——《渥太华公民报》发表了一份针对法轮功器官指控真实性及大卫·乔高报告可信度的报道。[4]
——法轮功作为物证呈送的血淋淋的照片不能作为活体解剖的证据,即乔高-麦塔斯报告附录201中王斌(Wang Bin)先生的照片。
一位病理学家的评论[5],甚至根据法轮功自己的报告中所提及的,当局对王先生进行尸检以作为谋杀调查的一部分[6],均可揭示出法轮功自相矛盾的说法。
另一张被法轮功广泛滥用的照片是刘玉峰(音译:Liu Yufeng)先生的,但它也并不能证明活体解剖的存在。
事实上,这些照片是真正的医学照片,而非暴行的证据。比如,法轮功曾使用一张乳腺癌的照片来支持其性酷刑的指控,而两年前,一位医生在其博客中就注意到了这个容易误导他人的故事。
总之,写一篇辛德勒的名单的寓言故事并不是审查中国人权记录的办法。如果我们的指控并不确切,而仅仅依靠穷凶极恶的起诉,那么人们为什么要严肃认真对待这件事?
社团活动分子:查尔斯·
美国华盛顿西雅图
附注:
1http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdfCRS-7
2、在一份提交给美国参议员范因斯坦(范士丹,Dianne Feinstein)的书面摘要《间接镇压》上引用了国会的研究员艾玛阿什本(Emma Ashburn )和托马斯卢姆(Thomas Lum)的言论。
3http://www.cicus.org/info_eng/artshow.asp?ID=6491
4http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/observer/story.html?id=2c15d2f0-f0ab-4da9-991a-23e4094de949&p=3 (34)
5、美国堪萨斯城市大学医学院病理学系弗里德兰德博士(Friedlander)评论。照片颈部处的“Y”形切口和棒球缝线状缝合线所示的是典型的解剖。在尸体解剖过程中,验尸员进行器官移动是例行公事,但这个事实却被忽略。
6http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html
7Ramana先生的评论:http://rambodoc.wordpress.com/2007/09/17/is-the-falun-gong-going-wrong
原文网址:http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2008/10/06/open-letter-to-david-kilgour-and-david-matas-on-falun-gong-and-organ-harvesting/

 Open letter to David Kilgour and David Matas on Falun Gong and organ harvesting
 

Adjust font size:      Close Foolsmountain.com By: Charles Liu 2008-10-08

(Backgournder on David Kilgour, David Matas, and their affiliation with Falun Gong's political lobby, CIPFG.)
Dear Mr. Kilgour, Mr. Matas:
While China's human rights record should be examined, I would like to urge you to look into all the facts of the case regarding the organ harvesting allegation made by the relgious sect Falun Gong.
In my opinion Falun Gong's actions not only discredited their own cause, they also detracted from honest examination of China's problems. Falun Gong's vivisection indictment muddled the rational discussion of issues such as Chinese society's moral, ethical standards on dignity and treatment of the condemned.
It is in this spirit I would like to bring to your attention some contrarian facts:
- US State Department's undercover investigation found Falun Gong's Sujiatun/Auschwitz allegation not credible. [1]
- A US Congressional brief critical of China questioned the veracity of Falun Gong's claim of genocide and credibility of Kilgour/Matas report. [2]
- Independent investigation by long time Chinese dissident Harry Wu found Falun Gong's claim, and its witnesses, unverifiable. [3]
- The Ottawa Citizen published a report on the veracity of Falun Gong's organ harvesting allegation, and credibility of the Kilgour report. [4]
- The gory photo admitted as evidence by Falun Gong is not evidence of vivisection. Specifically, photo of Mr. Wang Bin in the Kilgour/Matas report, Appendix 20 Case 1.
A pathologist review contradicted Falun Gong's claim. [5] Even according to Falun Gong's own reporting, an autopsy was performed as part of Mr. Wang's murder investigation held by local authority. [6]
Another photo that is widely mis-used by Falun Gong is of Mr. Liu Yufeng, it too does not prove vivisection.
In reality these photos are medical in nature, and are not evidence of atrocity. For example Falun Gong used a photo of breast cancer to support their "sexual torture" allegation. This story ran for two years before a physician blogger noticed the misrepresentation. [7]
In conclusion, writing an allegory of "Schindler's List" is not the way to examine China's human rights record. If we can not be precise with our accusation, only resort of nefarious indictment - why should anyone take the issue seriously?
Sincerely,
Charles Liu
Community Activist
Seattle, WA
References:
1) http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf  (section CRS-7)
2) "The Collateral of Suppression", a brief written for Senator Dianne Feinstein, member of US Congressional Executive Commission on China (CECC), where congressional researchers Emma Ashburn and Thomas Lum were quoted.
3) http://www.cicus.org/info_eng/artshow.asp?ID=6491
4) http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/observer/story.html?id=2c15d2f0-f0ab-4da9-991a-23e4094de949&p=3  (page 3, 4)
5) Review by Dr. Friedlander of Kansas City University School of Medicine, Pathology Dept. The photo exhibited 'Y' incisions in the neck and baseball stitch sutures, which are typical of autopsy. The fact organ removal by medical examiner during autopsy is routine, is omitted.
6) http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html
7) Review by Dr. Ramana: http://rambodoc.wordpress.com/2007/09/17/is-the-falun-gong-going-wrong
Original text: http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2008/10/06/open-letter-to-david-kilgour-and-david-matas-on-falun-gong-and-organ-harvesting/
(Foolsmountain.com, Monday, October 6, 2008)



[1] 《致两个大卫的公开信:关于法轮功与器官活摘》,查尔斯·刘,Foolsmountain.com2008106

兰博德克(Rambodoc),印度外科医生


这是关于一名妇女被电棍击打胸部而遭受酷刑的可怕故事,还有几幅被认为是乳房遭受电刑并感染的照片。作为外科医生的我当然对此感到好奇,并点击了这个链接。但我却吃惊地看到一个患有晚期乳腺癌妇女的照片。……有些图片与文字中描述的伤害情形并不一致。……胸部遭受电刑的照片很明显是误传。在我请求对此进行鉴别的外科医生中,没有一个被它所蒙骗。……我们可以明确地说,在这些例子中,那些图片是假的。那个乳腺癌的病例对任何一名外科医生来说,都是小菜一碟,它不是由电刑所造成的。[1]
原文
法轮功走入歧途了吗?(中英对照)
发布日期:20071211   文章来源:凯风网   作者:
917,自称为外科医生的Rambodoc在博客(rambodoc.Wordpress.com)上发表文章《法轮功走入歧途了吗?》,从医学专业人士的角度对法轮功炮制的受迫害图片的真实性提出质疑。文章认为,有些图片与文字中描述的伤害情形并不一致,从医学上将简直就是无稽之谈Rambodoc曾就图片的真实性咨询过美资深外科医生肯尼思·马托克斯(Kenneth Mattox)等医学专业人士,结论均认为图片是捏造的。Rambodoc的文章发表评论称,美国务院曾通过秘密调查认为法轮功有关活体解剖的说法不可信,法轮功受迫害真相联合调查团曾向器官摘取报告作者大卫·乔高付钱,查尔斯·刘建议Rambodoc呼吁《大纪元时报》的编辑将有关图片删除。
我想是Wordpress.com网站上一则醒目的内容吸引了我。这个博客既迷人又恐怖。阅读这些详尽且配有图解的有关中国官员折磨、强奸和谋杀法轮功成员的各种方式的描述后,令人感到瞠目结舌。
尽管不是什么新鲜、热点的新闻,但是通过过去两天对这些网站的浏览,还是给我留下了一些印象。
这些人很忠诚,这一点无庸置疑。看到她们不辞辛苦地罗列和证明政府犯下的各种罪行以及因国家的恶行而致死的练习者的姓名,不免使人产生敬畏之心。
但是,有一篇文章却令我感到惊讶。这是关于一名妇女被电棍击打胸部而遭受酷刑的可怕故事,还有几幅被认为是乳房遭受电刑并感染的照片。作为外科医生的我当然对此感到好奇,并点击了这个链接。但我却吃惊地看到一个患有晚期乳腺癌妇女的照片。同时还展示了另外许多图片,除了坚强的和受过训练的人以外,所有人都会对此感到十分恐怖。但是,有些图片与文字中描述的伤害情形并不一致。
在高蓉蓉女士的案例中(据称有人把电棍插进她的嘴里长达几个小时),照片上她的表情似乎惊人地平和。从医学上讲,遭受如此严重的外伤,会导致舌头肿胀到足以阻碍呼吸的程度,而且也会看到明显的面部肿胀。电灼伤还是会留下疤痕,但照片上却没有。
我询问过一位美国资深外科医生,同时也是一部重要的国际外科教科书的编者——肯尼思·马托克斯(Kenneth Mattox),让他对这些照片发表看法。马托克斯说:照片是可以骗人的。尽管有些伤势和情形也许是由酷刑造成的,但是有些照片可能来自一具尸体或患有晚期肝硬化、门静脉高血压、晚期坏死的乳腺癌、皮肤移植的供体部位、普通的急性电和热灼伤以及骶骨褥疮性溃疡的病人。
胸部遭受电刑的照片很明显是误传。在我请求对此进行鉴别的外科医生中,没有一个被它所蒙骗。
我发现法轮功的其它网站上也有声称类似的因酷刑而导致疾病的例子:她的鼻子因野蛮的强制喂食而受伤,形成脓肿,并于2003年癌变,2007712去世,年今年42她在遭受严酷的身体虐待的身体虐待后得了癌症,从医学上讲,这种结论简直就是荒谬的说法或者无稽之谈。我写信给该团体试图加以澄清,但到目前为止也没有得到答复。
考虑到法轮功运动正在进行的长期斗争和这种斗争的正义性与道义性(为自由、言论自由和信仰自由而斗争),我希望该运动注意到这样一个事实,即一旦失去了可信性就很难再重新赢得信任。需要通过图片对这些向法轮功施加酷刑的可怕、野蛮的畜生进行揭露是可以理解的。但是,事实胜于雄辩。因此,法轮功应当明确地鉴别出这些错误和虚假的东西,并把它们去除。为了自己的斗争和自己的同胞,他们应当这样做。

博客部分跟贴及博主回贴:
927,查尔斯·刘:
这些网站都是在法轮功领导层的命令或指挥下,付钱或者自发运转的。目的是为他们的反华宣传开辟一个回声室。我们已经看透了,我长期目睹了这一切。
尽管我不同意中国政府对法轮功的镇压,但我们许多身在西方的人也不了解法轮功在中国引起的争议。你在这里所提及的内容与他们在中国的所作所为相比,就显得平淡无奇了。

http://exposingthefalungong.org/fgban01.html
以上博客是一位旧金山人所作的调查,他的父母在被法轮功洗脑后,拒绝接受治疗,差点丧命。
美国务院也通过秘密调查认为法轮功有关活体解剖的指控不可信。

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
顺便说一句,法轮功的政治工具法轮功受迫害真相联合调查团CIPFG)(以偿还的名义)为大卫·乔高的血淋淋的器官摘取报告付钱。见报告中附录K
102,查尔斯·刘:
请把你发现的被歪曲的医学照片发送给《大纪元时报》的编辑克里斯·查素历克(chris.jasurek)、斯蒂芬格·雷戈里(stephen.gregory)、泰·顿(thai.ton),以便他们研究和撤回——就像真正的媒体组织所做的那样。
以下是我去年发过的内容,没有得到回复:
大卫·乔高(David Kilgour)的法轮功报告,附录20的案例1中,一幅王斌先生(Mr. Wang Bin)的尸体解剖照片被曲解为活体解剖和器官摘取的证据。
堪萨斯城大学(Kansas City University)医学病理学系佛里德兰德(Friedlander)博士对照片进行了检查。该照片中,劲部有“Y”字型切口,还有棒球式的缝合线,这些都是典型的尸体解剖表现。验尸期间验尸官切除器官做证据是例行公事。
1116rambodoc (作者):
我已经清楚地说明字自己对中国政府的看法。我同情任何站起来反抗专制独裁的团体。专制政府才是邪恶的。
但是,与邪教的斗争不是一天或者一年就能完成的。这事一项长期任务,包括个人见解的发展演变,以及在政治斗争、战略制定等活动的应用。
在帖子中,我已经清楚地表达了自己及其他国际专家的看法,他们似乎都认为至少有一些图片是捏造的。
当然,需要经过病历和身体方面的检查才能做出诊断。但是我们可以明确地说,在这些例子中,那些图片是假的。那个乳腺癌的病例对任何一名外科医生来说,都是小菜一碟,它不是由电刑所造成的。
这并不意味着酷刑、摘取器官等情况没有发生过。我要再次强调一下,我提及的是上述网站上的那些图片,并警告法轮大法,提供伪造的图片将损害他们的初衷。
我负责地写下了这篇帖子。我可以对自己所写的任何一个字负责,包括这些评论。
1120,查尔斯·刘:
对我的间谍指控完全是捏造的。事实上,我曾经提供过两个案例,说明《大纪元时报》的记者亚娜·希尔(Jana Shesr)对与他们观点不一致的其他博客作者进行抨击。

http://falungongpolitics.blogspot.com/2007/04/epoch-times-reporters-gone-wild.html
当然,他们面对事实哑口无言,所以采取人身攻击的办法。   
 Is the Falun Gong Going wrong

September 17, 2007

Blog from: http://rambodoc.wordpress.com/2007/09/17/is-the-falun-gong-going-wrong/
I think it was a featured post in the Wordpress.com website that took me there. The blog was fascinating and morbid. It was an eye opener to read the exhaustive and graphic details of the myriad ways the Chinese officialdom tortures, rapes and murders the members of the Falun Gong sect.
While none of this is fresh, hot news, going into these sites for the last couple of days helped me form some impressions.
These people are committed. No question about this. It is awe-inspiring to see how painstakingly they have documented the list of crimes by the government, as well as the names of the practitioners who have succumbed to the State’s malevolence.
However, one article surprised me. It was a ghastly story of a woman who was tortured with electrical batons held to her breast, and the pictures were supposedly of an electrocuted breast with infection. Naturally, the surgeon in me had an understandable curiosity to see this, and I clicked on the links. I was taken aback to see pictures of a woman with advanced breast cancer.
Many other pictures were on display, quite horrifying for all but the hardened and the trained. However, some of the pictures did not really gel with the textual explanations of the injuries.
In the case of Ms. Gao Rongrong, who was allegedly tortured with an electric baton held inside her mouth for hours, the pictures seem to be surprisingly benign.

Medically, a trauma of that severity would have led to tongue swelling to the point of causing obstruction in breathing, and a phenomenal facial swelling would also be seen. Electrical burns also cause scars, the kind of which are lacking in the pictures.
I asked Ken Mattox, a senior American surgeon and an editor of a major international surgical textbook, to opine on these images.
Mattox says, “Photographs can be deceiving. While some of the apparent injuries and conditions might have been caused by torture, it appears that some of the photographs are from conditions which are sometimes seen in a hospital. The photographs could have been from rigor mortis in a dead body, advanced cirrhosis of the liver, portal hypertension, advanced necrotic breast cancer, donor site for a skin graft, routine acute electrical and thermal burns, and sacral decubitus ulcer.”
The picture of breast electrocution is, quite clearly, a misrepresentation. It fooled none of the group of surgeons I asked to inspect.
I found other Falun Gong sites that also alleged similar torture-induced diseases. Here are two samples:
*Her nose was injured as a result of the brutal force-feeding, turned into an abscess, and became cancerous in 2003. She died on July 12, 2007 at the age of 42.
*She developed cancer after being subjected to severe physical abuse.
Medically speaking, this falls close to the category of myth or rubbish. I wrote to the organisation seeking clarifications on the specific points, but have not yet received a reply.
In view of the long term struggle that the Falun Gong movement is undertaking, and the fact that the struggle is clearly a just and moral one (the struggle to be free, to speak freely and practise one’s beliefs freely), I wish the movement takes note of the fact that it is difficult to regain credibility once lost. The need to be graphic to expose the horrible and inhuman animals who perpetrate these tortures on the Falun Gong is understandable.
However, the truth is great, and shall prevail.
Hence, the Falun Gong should clearly identify the mistakes and the fakes and remove them. They owe this to their own struggle, their own people.
Part of comments:
Charles Liu // September 27, 2007 at 6:13 am
rambodoc, all these websites are somehow either paid for, or “voluntarily” operated at the behest and direction of, the Falun Gong leadership.
The goal is to creat an “Echo Chamber” for their anti-Chinese propaganda. Those of us in the community see right thru it. I as an Asian-American community activist have been witnessing this for a long time.
Here’s a clue, just Google whatever names that comes up with other keywords like “Falun Dafa”, or “Epoch Times”.

Charles Liu // September 27, 2007 at 6:19 am
While I do not agree with the Chinese government’s crack-down on Falun Gong, many of us in the West are not aware of Falun Gong’s controversial history in China.
What you noticed here is tame compare to what they had done in China:
http://exposingthefalungong.org/fgban01.html
Above blog is research from a San Fracisco man who’s parents nearly died from refusing medical treatment after being brainwashed by Falun Gong.

Charles Liu // September 27, 2007 at 7:20 am
Falun Gong’s vivisection allegation has been discredited by US State Dept.’s undercover investigation as well:
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
BTW, David Kilgour’s “Bloody Harvest” report was paid for by Falun Gong’s political arm CIPFG (in terms of “reimbursement”.) See appendix K of the report.
Charles Liu // October 2, 2007 at 11:49 am
Rambodoc, please send your list of misrepresented medical photos to Epoch Times editor, so they may study them and issue retractions - like real media organizations do:
chris.jasurek (at) epochtimes.com
stephen.gregory (at) epochtimes.com
thai.ton (at) epochtimes.com
Here’s the one I sent last year, and never hear back from:
- In David Kilgour’s Falun Gong report, Appendix 20 Case 1, an autopsy photo of Mr. Wang Bin had been misreprested as evidence of vivisection and organ harvesting.
- The photo was reviewed by Dr. Friedlander of Kansas City University School of Medicine, Pathology Dept.
- The photo exhibited ‘Y’ incisions in the neck and baseball stitch sutures, which are typical of autopsy. The fact organ removal by medical examiner during autopsy is routine, is omitted.
rambodoc // November 16, 2007 at 6:19 am
Matt,
I appreciate your concerns. I have clearly said what I think about the Chinese Government. I have underlined visibly, I think, that I am sympathetic to any group that stands up to a dictatorship. It is the dictatorship that is evil.
However, the fight against evil cannot be over in a day or an year. It is a long term affair involving the evolution of one’s philosophies and applying them to one’s political struggle, strategising, etc.
I have, in my post, clearly given my impression, along with those of other international experts, who ALL seem to think at least some of the pictures are fake.
Obviously, a history and physical exam completes a diagnosis, but we could clearly say in those instances what those pictures were NOT, and the breast cancer case was a sitter for any surgeon. It is NOT about electrical torture. Period.
This does NOT mean that there are no tortures, no organ harvesting, etc. I again stress that I am referring to those pictures in the mentioned sites, and I caution the Falun Dafa that putting up fabricated pictures will harm their cause.
I have written the post with responsibility. You could take me up on every word I have written on it, including these comments.

Charles Liu // November 20, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Rambodoc, the spy accusation against me is a complete fabrication.
Matter of fact I have documented two other cases where Falun Gong newspaper Epoch Times reporter Jana Shear has attacked other bloggers who disagree with them:
http://falungongpolitics.blogspot.com/2007/04/epoch-times-reporters-gone-wild.html
Of course they have nothing to say about the facts presented, so they resort to personal attack.
And who is Matt Robertson? He is also a reporter from Epoch Times:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Matt+Robertson+Epoch+Times  


[1] 《法轮功走入歧途了吗?》,Wordpress.com,兰博德克,2007917